An Interview with Jean-Claude Petit

An Interview with Jean-Claude Petit by Marco Werba
Originally published in Soundtrack Magazine Vol.11 / No.44 / 1992
Text reproduced by kind permission of the publisher, Luc van de Ven

Jean-Claude Petit is now one of France's leading film composers, alongside Gabriel Yared. In just over a decade, he has forged a solid reputation, especially since his superb work on MANON DES SOURCES and JEAN DE FLORETTE in 1986 and CYRANO DE BERGERAC in 1990. Since this interview took place, Jean-Claude Petit has signed the score for ZEBRE, the film directed by the late Jean Poiret. Even if some of the films he has collaborated on have not been great successes (MAYRIG, 588 RUE PARADIS, LE RETOUR DES MOUSQUETAIRES or DEUX), the music written by Jean-Claude Petit is always an important element in the final rendering of the film he works on. His talent, eclecticism and well-earned renown make him one of the most talented and important voices in French music. - Yann Merluzeau
 

Let's start by recalling that you were born on November 14, 1945, entered the Paris Conservatoire and won a prize in Solfège...
Actually, for solfège, it's called première médaille, and it's before harmony, counterpoint and fugue, which come later, at 15/16/17. I then obtained my first prize. It's an exam, and prizes are only awarded to those who have the necessary level. Many French and even foreign composers have graduated from the Paris Conservatoire.

Did you start writing anything?
Absolutely not. In writing, counterpoint, fugue and harmony classes, we did exercises, but what interested me most at the time was jazz, and I played the piano as a reaction against the classical music I'd been taught as a child. Jazz was what I liked and what I practiced, because from the age of 15/16, I played with Dexter Gordon, Johnny Griffin and many others, all the American musicians who passed through France. Up until the age of 20, I mainly played piano and jazz.

You worked mainly as an arranger for singers like Marie Laforêt, Joan Baez and others.
I was afraid of drugs and all those things, so I was probably right to be a little afraid, and then I was offered the chance to accompany fashionable French singers called Claude François and Sylvie Vartan. I started accompanying them, and very quickly they learned that I knew how to write music, which was rarely the case in the French variety scene, and is still relatively rare. Since I knew how to make music, I was asked to do arrangements and orchestrations for variety records. This happened very quickly, because by 1968, I was one of the most prolific arrangers in France. I arranged everything from Michel Sardou to Julien Clerc, from Johnny Hallyday to Claude François, from Sylvie Vartan to Mort Schumann, from Marie Laforêt to Joan Baez... I made records as an orchestrator and arranger, and from time to time, I composed songs. Gabriel Yared came along a little later, but he was an arranger exactly like me, with a gap of 3/4 years. It was more or less the same kind of career, except that he stopped arranging earlier than I did, and he started doing film music earlier than I did. I didn't have the courage until a little later, 3 or 4 years later. I've always had an interest in film music, and when you have a background that spans jazz, classical music and variety, it's ideal. Once again, it allows you to express yourself in all genres. I had no connections or opportunity to work in the film music world, and I didn't have that opportunity for a very long time. I simply approached film music as an arranger who wrote for others; we call that a ghostwriter. I did it a little, others did it, but I did it very little, for 2/3 years anyway. In the end, it was an enriching experience for me. It was an experience.

Did you also do some theater work?
Yes, it was at the same time as the arrangements. You always get the impression from biographies that I've had several lives. But it's true, I've had several lives, because the variety shows happened at the same time as the theater. I worked a lot with Jean-Pierre Micquel, who was the director of the Odéon at the time. I wrote a lot of music for plays, which got me out of the music business and once again enabled me to re-exploit the classical culture I'd been given as a child. Musicals like MAYFLOWER and RÉVOLUTION FRANÇAISE were great adventures in the French theaters I attended. In those days, I was the essential arranger, or almost, and as soon as something was done, I was asked to take part. For musicals, it was songs or orchestral passages developing songs. They were often large orchestras with strings, as they were in those days. I conducted and still conduct everything I do.

What was your first film?
VIVE LA SOCIALE! with Gérard Mordillai. Once again, it was by chance, because I knew the producer well. René Cleitman, who was the N°1 director in Europe and then became producer of Hachette films. Later, he produced CYRANO DE BERGERAC, and he knew me as an arranger. He asked me to write this first film score, which wasn't the first I'd written, but the first I'd signed. It was in 1981, a rather symbolic date. I jumped at the chance to abandon arrangements altogether. I'd had an overdose of the French variety music scene, so uncultured. Putting up with it for 15 years had become difficult. At first, it was enriching, then it became oppressive.

How did you come to do JEAN DE FLORETTE and MANON DES SOURCES?
Here again, it's the connections I had in variety music, thanks to Julien Clerc's former impresario, who is still my agent and who is now director of Art Média. After seeing me write the music for VIVE LA SOCIALE and the 3 or 4 others that followed, he said to me: "I'm an agent for the cinema and for a few composers, so if you want, we can work together". I replied: "I'd like to, I'm a young, old musician and I'd like to do a bit more in this field". It was he who introduced me to Claude Berri, who immediately trusted me and allowed me to write the music for JEAN DE FLORETTE and MANON DES SOURCES. This gave me a reputation beyond what I had at the time.

Have you done any research into period music?
Claude Berri came to me and said he wanted a theme from an opera, which I could understand. I came up with the theme of "Force of Destiny", and around it I built a score that had nothing to do with Giuseppe Verdi, but had something to do with the 1930s. I thought it was a very simple, beautiful and interesting theme for the film, and it was Claude Berri's idea from the start, so I couldn't do anything else at the time. I didn't just take the theme and unfold it. I arranged it, reorchestrated it and gave it a whole new meaning. I gave it another meaning with the harmonica. I wanted the theme to be grandiose, because the story is reminiscent of Greek tragedy, with its thirst for water, but at the same time it takes place in a humble, poor and fairly simple environment. I wanted you to feel both the grandiose and the simple.

Can you talk about your music for DEUX?
It's interesting, because it touches on contemporary music. I now write contemporary music alongside film music, which accounts for 90% of my time. The rest is more learned music, and it's true that contemporary music has no place in cinema at the moment, because it's rejected by the great mass of people. This gave me the opportunity, since the story deals with contemporary music, to write music that Claude Zidi was very afraid of. I wanted to go further with the music, but he was always holding me back. It was a big debate between us. I wrote a compromise, but I enjoyed writing it because it's the only time I've ever had the opportunity to write advanced music.

Did you find yourself in the film's protagonist, who is a composer?
Yes, strangely enough. Not completely, of course, because he used to be an impresario and now he's back to music. I'll never be an impresario, or even an agent, but it's true that I recognized myself in his attitudes, and his attitude to women too. There must be some things in common, and I think Claude Zidi analyzed the situation well, but unfortunately the film wasn't a success. Claude Zidi had made an effort, and for six months before filming, he had been going to contemporary music concerts. He had no idea what this music was, he'd been with the musicians, he'd seen me for 3 months before shooting the film. I'd spoken to him at length, describing what these musicians were like.

Gérard Depardieu captured the main characteristics of these musicians. This is his only serious film. He bit the bullet a little. He didn't do it again, given the film's lack of success, but he's still glad he did it, because it showed he could do something different from his usual films, which are quite good, but in a different tone. I'd like to reflect on this film. Gérard Depardieu is an extremely sensitive person, he doesn't know contemporary music. I had written a piano piece for him, which he was to play in a concert, pretending he didn't know anything about the piano. But when you see him, you really get the impression that he's playing the piece. He's a very gifted person. On JEAN DE FLORETTE we were together, on DEUX too, and on CYRANO DE BERGERAC and URANUS, it's a complete coincidence. After so many films, we know each other well. I knew his wife Elisabeth. I'd written the music for a play called Le Rire de David, which was being performed at the Théâtre de l'Europe, in which she had a role, and I'd also seen her before, because she was a singer, so she'd asked me to make a record. So we had an old relationship, and I also know her son, who came to see me for advice, because he wants to be a musician.

Let's talk about your music for CYRANO DE BERGERAC.
I was lucky, because first of all, there's a long score, which isn't always the case in French cinema. We know that there's sometimes a quarter-hour of music for an hour and a half of film. In this case, it was a good hour of music, and that's great for a composer. It's a romantic story, even if it's set in the 17th century, so great sentiments are always quite interesting for film musicians.

It's a fresco that works well with adventure and love...
...and at the same time with 17th century ingredients. In Roxanne's theme, there's a psaltery, which is a very old instrument, although this is romantic music.

How long did you have to compose the music?
It was a very long shoot. I was on set a lot. There was some music to write beforehand, for example the fife scene, the theater scene too, concert-style. I spent quite some time on that and then, to write the music, I had about 2 months, which is a luxury for a film in France, because generally, they don't even give you three weeks to do it.

Did you do the orchestrations?
Yes, of course I did. I write everything, with a few exceptions. I once had to get help with Richard Lester's THE RETURN OF THE MOUSQUETAIRES because I was really overwhelmed. There was an hour and fifteen minutes of music. I didn't have enough time to do it, so I got help with a three-minute number. But in general, I write everything myself, which seems to me to be the least I can do as a film music composer. There are film composers in our country who don't write a note of music because they don't know music. It's quite insane. Having said that, even when you write your own music, it can happen that you're a bit overwhelmed and you need help. Gabriel Yared has contributed a lot to French film music, he's very good, Vladimir Cosma too, but that's another genre, Georges Delerue is part of the history of film music. Michel Legrand has talent, originality and an exceptional personality. I respect these musicians.

There are many different types of musician in film music, and you have to be very flexible and let your personality shine through within each style. In general, we don't think badly of our colleagues; all those I've mentioned, I really like them and I listen to them as well. I respect Francis Lai enormously; he plays the accordion very well, he reads the music, he doesn't write the orchestrations, but he's done some unmissable melodies that I wouldn't be able to do. It's a different way of working. In the United States, there are melodists who get their music orchestrated, it's a practice, there are those who write everything, it's the most respectable, deontologically the most interesting, and there are those who write nothing. The American system is a division of labor. I don't mind working for American cinema in Los Angeles, but not in Los Angeles. I'm not interested in working with three collaborators, two lawyers, three agents and five negroes, one film editor. I'm a craftsman, I want to remain free, I'm not an industrialist.

Do you have a favorite orchestra?
I've had some not-so-good adventures with symphony orchestras, because in a symphony orchestra, there's a sound, an interesting sound, they're used to playing together, but there's always a weakness or weaknesses. That's the case in France too. I know all the musicians and I prefer to choose them one by one. When I work abroad, it's with the London Symphony Orchestra. I think they're great, except for specific instruments where they're weak and weaker than in France. I think the London Symphony Orchestra has a great sound, a habit of playing, exceptional flexibility, but there are weaknesses in one section in particular.

What about LE RETOUR DES MOUSQUETAIRES?
It helped me a lot with CYRANO DE BERGERAC. Firstly, I was closer to the 17th century in LE RETOUR DES MOUSQUETAIRES than in CYRANO DE BERGERAC because the adventure was less romantic. In the end, it's a funny film, so I got closer to the music of the 17th century. What's more, Richard Lester asked me to get very close to the music of the 17th century, to find old things, and so I did a whole investigation, I worked with the London Symphony Orchestra and also with an early music orchestra. I had to write this music in a state of intense stress, because it took me three weeks to write an hour and a quarter of music, generally disheveled, because they fight all the time in the film (in the second degree, because we laugh about it). It was very difficult to write, and I was very happy with the experience. The film wasn't a success, but it enriched me a lot for my next film, CYRANO DE BERGERAC. Jean-Paul Rappeneau didn't want to listen to the music. He said to me: "If I listen to this music, you'll have to do the same".

Do you have a favorite composer, a role model?
It seems a strange question to ask. I love all kinds of music. I know Indian music, Oriental music, Chinese music, Japanese music, Western music of course, contemporary music, modern jazz, which I'm still very interested in. I have many favorite composers, from Johann Sebastian Bach to Schoenberg, Berg and John Coltrane, it's so wide.

Let's turn now to your collaboration with Henri Verneuil.
MAYRIG and 588 RUE PARADIS are a bit like JEAN DE FLORETTE and MANON DES SOURCES. They both take place between 1930 and the present day. It's an important saga in the history of Henri Verneuil, the novel of his life. I wrote two themes for the film. He shot a lot of scenes with this music. Which only half pleased me. I discovered an Armenian instrument called the duduk, which is a wooden flute played a bit like a gypsy violin. It's very expressive and lends itself very well to a lyrical theme.

Would you like to collaborate with foreign directors?
I'd love to work with Ettore Scola, I'm a great admirer of his work. I've been a great admirer of Italian cinema in general. I watched Italian cinema as a teenager, with its neo-realism. I'm an orphan of that cinema, which I loved very much and which made me laugh and cry - what could be better in cinema?

Is your contemporary music performed?
I get specific commissions from time to time. I have a string quartet that's played a lot, and I have 2/3 other pieces. I don't write enough for contemporary music. I started around 1982, but since then I've only written five pieces, which isn't very many. I don't think you can do it seriously if you're writing other music at the same time. I like to do the impossible. I'm going to get them published, because I can afford to do that because of my film music. I'd like to do a whole CD with 45/60 minutes of sufficiently interesting music, but I'm not there yet.