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Maurice Jarre on Scoring The Sunchaser

Daniel Mangodt

An interview with Maurice Jarre by Daniel Mangodt
Originally published in Soundtrack Magazine Vol.15 / No.60 / 1996
Text reproduced by kind permission of the editor, Luc Van de Ven

Maurice Jarre fans have every reason to be delighted: this Summer Jarre gave an open air concert in Berlin, a career achievement award dinner given by the Society for the Preservation of Film Music took place last October and his concert at the Royal Festival Hall in London a few days later (on October 16) attracted quite a crowd.


The highlights were a London premiere of a suite from THE TIN DRUM and 2 world premieres: a suite from THE YEAR OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY complete with gamelan, Ondes Martenot and EVI, and a Concerto for Electronic Valve Instrument, Strings and Percussion.


At the age of 72 Jarre seemed to be in top form, clearly enjoying himself during the sold-out performance and demonstrating once again his talents as a raconteur. This short interview took place at the Dorchester Hotel in London. Some of the questions and/or comments are by Trevor Willsmer, the editor of Movie Collector. Later that week Jarre went to Paris to attend a performance of his ballet Notre-Dame de Paris at the Bastille Opera, an event he wasn't even informed of by the people who organized the event…


THE SUNCHASER is your most recent score…

When Michael Cimino started the film, from the beginning he thought about me, but he had a lot of problems with the production. They told him Maurice Jarre wouldn't be available and he'd be too expensive anyway. But Cimino was persistent, he sent me the script and I liked it. It's an engrossing story, a movie with real characters, like in the seventies. This kind of film is making a come-back, like RYAN'S DAUGHTER, which was a flop when it had its release, but a few years ago when it was shown again people applauded. I saw the film in pretty bad conditions, and I didn't even see the ending at the time, because they were still editing the film. I liked the movie and it was very interesting from a musical point of view: there were big open spaces (kind of Americana) and a character confrontation between the Indian Blue and the doctor who is kidnapped by Blue. They live in 2 different worlds and in the end the doctor has to admit that there may be another way to cure people, not only the scientific way, which is kind of a modern theme.


What approach did you take?

When you see a film in its final cutting stages, if the film is good you really feel inspired. Good directors like Cimino, Lean or Weir know very well what they are expecting from the music. So you have to express your ideas and it's a kind of collaboration. I love to work very closely with the director. They say you are not free when you are writing music for films. That is not true. I still write the same kind of music I wrote a long time ago with different directors. You have to be able to go with the director's point of view, but still it is your music. THE SUNCHASER has a big orchestral score. After all these big movies like LAWRENCE and IS PARIS BURNING? it was very difficult for me to ask directors whether they'd allow me to write an electronic score or a score for small ensemble. They said “No. You are very good at writing those big scores.” Finally I was allowed to write an electronic score for THE YEAR OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY for Peter Weir and for other directors and recently my agent got a call from a producer who wanted me for his movie and he asked: “Can Maurice write an orchestral score?”


There is a piece by Copland from Appalachian Spring in THE SUNCHASER (it occurs when they are driving their car through a pack of horses).

Michael Cimino chose that because there was so little time. I had two weeks to write about 45 minutes, and I said I doubted I could write all the music. Cimino told me not to worry and he suggested to keep Copland's piece for this particular scene. And I was relieved.


Did he use that as a temp-track?

It was on the temp-track and it works very well. The only thing I did was to write an intro and an ending to Copland's piece so that it comes across as one piece.


Warner Bros. were a little bit wary about giving Cimino too much control over the film. Was that manifested when you were working?

Warner Bros. were very happy. The problem was with the publicity surrounding the film and with the Cannes Festival where the film was shown in competition. Everybody from the Cannes organisation loved the film and they wanted to give it “Le Prix du Jury”, but Francis Ford Coppola disliked Cimino and so the prize was given to another film.


What happened on THE RIVER WILD?

I worked with the director, Curtis Hanson, and producers Larry Turman and David Foster. They always came to the recording sessions and everybody was very happy. We mixed the music and everything was fine and we did the record and the people from RCA went to see the movie with the music and they liked it. Curtis Hanson had even written liner notes for the CD booklet. But the preview was disastrous and the head of the studio at Universal, Sidney Sheinberg, didn't like the movie. He ordered Hanson to change the music, who was really surprised, but Sheinberg was the boss. The next morning, they called Jerry Goldsmith. So, fine. I was paid. In the end Sheinberg wanted to change Goldmith’s music also, again because he didn't like the music. What qualifications does this guy have? Does he have a degree in music? He is a business man. He knew that the film was not really good and when he realized that, the only thing left to do was to change the music. David Lean told me once a composer can be a doctor. The only problem is when the patient is already dead. You cannot save the film.


Producers tend to regard the score as the last chance to save the film, like with THE SCARLET LETTER, which is a dreadful film. You've been in the line of fire a few times, especially lately…

I think it's because directors have less power than before. They couldn't do that to Hitchcock or David Lean.


One of the reasons is of course that films are so expensive nowadays and film scores have become so much more expensive to perform…

I'm not so sure about that. They send a lot of composers to the East-European countries and it cost 10 times less, but lately they are charging more. I turned down several films because they wanted me to go to Hungary. I said “No”, because we have the best musicians in the United States and London is fantastic also. The orchestras are wonderful here, because they play together every day. But even in the States a pick-up orchestra is very good. France is out, because the French are not really professional. The studios are not so good in Eastern Europe; they have to bring in recording engineers and so on. I don't think music costs more. The thing is, it costs more if you have 3 different scores! I even heard that Demi Moore had a lot of say about the music for THE SCARLET LETTER.


The rumor is actually that Elmer sent her a thank you note for rejecting the score, saying that now he could use it on a better film.

An assistant in L.A. told me that Elmer's music was wonderful.


The same thing happened on WHITE SQUALL…

That was worse. I was supposed to do BLACK RAIN for Ridley Scott, but I didn't do the film, I don't remember why. When he asked me to score WHITE SQUALL, I was curious why he asked me. He had used music from WITNESS and DEAD POET'S SOCIETY as temp-track. He wanted me to write music in the same mood as for those two films. It was partly electronics and there was a little choir and an orchestra. We decided to start recording the electronics first. So we did one session with electronics and he came in late and I told him what I was doing, and he asked me to continue. Before the second session started, the producer told me Ridley didn’t want me to continue with the music. He had changed his mind. He didn't want to have the mood of DEAD POETS. He would have liked to have more time to cut the film.


Everything was ready, all the musicians were booked, the choir was booked and I said: “Let me at least record what I wrote, because no matter what, you are going to have to pay these people and we have 3 full days of recording ahead.” The producer had no idea what it is like to work with musicians. You have to pay the musicians and the recording studio. But they decided to stop after just one session. I couldn’t believe it. I called Ridley and he told me he had made a mistake to have the same mood as DEAD POETS. The real problem was that they realized the film was bad and Ridley wanted to have some time to recut the film. Actually they wanted me to wait until February (this was in December of last year) and then write a second score for the same money. In the end they had to pay the full three days: an orchestra of 80 people for 2 days, five men for the electronics plus the choir, plus the studio. They could at least have recorded the music.


You sued them.

Yes. I was paid in three installments. The first two payments were okay and they thought the third payment was a part of the deal. I had to sue Ridley Scott to get my money. Big movie moguls like Zanuck or Spiegel were careful with money. They cheated a little bit, but they knew what they were doing. But I signed a contract. This year 7 or 8 composers were fired from the film they were working on, people like Silvestri, Bernstein.


I heard that there will be no CD of THE SUNCHASER?

Maybe the re-use fees were too high or maybe there was a song they wanted to use. Probably that was too expensive. But I always mix for a possible CD.


In the fifties and early sixties you wrote a lot of “classical music”, e. g. the Mobiles pour Violon et Orchestre and the Cantates pour une Démente. They were never recorded.

We have a project with Milan to record some of those pieces. You heard this piece yesterday. I wrote the Mobiles for a violinist called Devy Erlih. When you write a piece like that with a lot of freedom for the soloist it is very difficult for the orchestra and you cannot have too many rehearsals, because it costs too much money, especially now.


For the Cantates you used a special way of notation.

How did you know that?


I read it somewhere (I actually read it in the late Nicolas Slonimsky's “Music Since 1900” where he wrote that the score was notated both acoustically and pictorially as a partition-tableau.)

It was based on letters from women inmates at an asylum for the insane and I based the music on a painting. I have always been interested in painting. Maybe I was influenced by Franju's LA TETE CONTRE LES MURS aka THE KEEPERS). And I was interested what a mad woman would paint, I used a canvas, and after that I put some lines horizontally and vertically and I designed it like a score; I had to reconstruct the music with what I did with the painting, the colors represent notes. It was after all a kind of intellectual exercise.


When I listened to the concerto for EVI yesterday, it took me back to your early career.

I loved to do that. For this concerto I worked with Nyle Steiner (I worked with him since WITNESS), the inventor of the EVI. He is a genius and I wanted to introduce him to an audience with this totally new instrument. The score is a classical one, very tonal. This instrument can imitate almost every instrument except the violins. It has an incredible scope of sound. I tried to manage with each sound a combination of instruments, and instruments from different families. For instance one sound was a combination of harpsichord, flute, bongos, harp and vibraphone. The sound is a mixture of that. In other words it creates a totally new sound, but it is still musical. It can imitate an electric saw or a drill or bells or a kind of rap music and besides that you have something very melodic.


What are your future projects?

Maybe to write more music, not necessarily for films. I did this Concerto for EVI, just seventeen minutes, in two months and I really enjoyed it. It's wonderful to write and not to have to work for these kind of jerks. I will probably do the next Peter Weir movie. He is working on a very interesting script, THE TRUMAN SHOW. It's almost science fiction. You know, at my age and at this point in my career, I don't care. I have my house, I have 3 dogs and I have a wife, not necessarily in that order (laughs). It's wonderful. I'm very happy.

by Pascal Dupont 10 May, 2024
Charles Allan Gerhardt English version adapted by Doug Raynes - FRENCH VERSION AND COLLECTION had a reputation as a great conductor, record producer and musical arranger. His major work at RCA on the Classic Film Scores series earned him recognition from film music devotees of Hollywood’s Golden Age, as well as other renowned conductors of his day. Born on February 6, 1927 in Detroit, Michigan, Charles Gerhardt developed a passion for music and percussion instruments from an early age. At the age of five, he took piano lessons, and by the age of nine, had established a solid reputation as an orchestrator and composer. He spent his early school years in Little Rock, Arkansas, then after 10 years, having completed his schooling, moved with his family to Illinois for his military duties, he served in the U.S. Navy during World War II as a chaplain's aide in the Aleutian Islands, then became an active member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. He went on to study at the University of Illinois, at the College of William and Mary, and later at the University of Southern California. Throughout his time at school Gerhardt was attracted not only to music, but also to the sciences. Passionate about the art of recording, he joined Westminster Records for five years, until the company ceased operations, and then joined Bell Sound. One day, he received a phone call from George Marek to meet with the heads of Reader's Digest, to discuss producing recordings for their mail-order record business; a contact that was to secure his musical future and a rich career spanning more than 30 years. Gerhardt's first job for Reader's Digest was to produce a record; “A Festival of Light Classical Music”; a 12 LP box set that he produced in full. One of Gerhardt's finest projects was the production of another 12 LP box set, “Les Trésores de la Grande Musique (Treasury of Great Music)”, featuring the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by some of the leading figures of the day: Charles Munch to Bizet and Tchaikovsky, Rudolf Kempe to Strauss and Respighi, Josef Krips to Mozart and Haydn, Antal Dorati to Strauss and Berlioz, Brahms 4th Symphony by Fritz Reiner and Sibelius’ 2nd Symphony by Sir John Barbirolli. In the 1950s he conducted works by Vladimir Horowitz, Wanda Landowska, Kirsten Flagstad and William Kapeli. In the early 1960s, Gerhardt lived in England, where he made most of his recordings, but kept a foothold in the United States, mainly in New York. Often, when he went to the United States after a period of recording sessions, he would stop off in Baltimore and spend some time listening to cassettes of his new recordings. Gerhardt loved percussion instruments, especially tam-tams. One of his favorite recordings was the Columbia mono disc of Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy, with Dimitri Mitropoulos and the New York Philharmonic. He had great admiration and respect for the many conductors he worked with, starting with Arturo Toscanini, with whom he worked for several years before the Maestro's death. It was Toscanini who suggested that Gerhardt become a conductor, which he did! His career as an orchestra director began when he had to replace a conductor who failed to show up for rehearsals. It was a position he would later occupy for various recording sessions and occasional concerts. His classical recordings include works by Richard Strauss, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Ravel, Debussy, Walton and Howard Hanson. Hired by RCA Records, he transferred 78 rpm recordings of Enrico Caruso and other artists to 33 rpm. He took part in recordings by soprano singer Kirsten Flagstad and pianist Vladimir Horowitz. He worked with renowned conductors such as Fritz Reiner, Leopold Stokowski and Charles Munch, from whom he learned the tricks of the trade. Still at RCA, he assisted Arturo Toscanini, with whom he perfected his conducting skills. Then, in 1960, he produced recordings for RCA and Reader’s Digest in London, and joined forces with sound engineer Kenneth Wilkinson of Decca Records (RCA's European subsidiary), The two men got on very well and shared a passion for recording and sound quality, making an incredible number of recordings over a 30-year period. Also in 1960, RCA and Reader's Digest entrusted him with the production of a 12-disc LP box set entitled “ Lumière du Classique (A Festival of Light Classical Music) ”, sold exclusively by mail order. With a budget of $250,000, Gerhardt assumed total control of the project: repertoire, choice of orchestras and production. He recorded in London, Vienna and Paris, and hired such top names as Sir Adrian Boult, Massimo Freccia, Sir Alexander Gibson and René Leibowitz. The success of this project, in terms of both musical quality and sound, earned him recognition from his employers. Other projects of similar scope followed… A boxed set of Beethoven's symphonic works with René Leibowitz and The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. A boxed set of Rachmaninoff's works for piano and orchestra with Earl Wild, Jascha Horenstein and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, the above mentioned 12 LP disc set “Trésor de la Grande Musique (Treasury of Great Music)” with the Royal Philharmonic conducted by some of the greatest directors of the time: Fritz Reiner, Charles Munch, Rudolf Kempe, Sir John Barbirolli, Sir Malcolm Sargent, Antal Dorati and Jascha Horenstein, with whom Gerhardt had sympathized. In January 1964 in London, Gerhardt joined forces with Sidney Sax, instrumentalist and conductor, to form a freelance orchestra. This successful group went on to join the National Philharmonic Orchestra of London, an impressive line-up that would later become Jerry Goldsmith's orchestra of choice. With Peter Munves, head of RCA's classical division, he conceived the idea of recording an album devoted exclusively to the film music of Erich Wolfgang Korngold, one of his favorite composers. Enthusiastic about the project, Munves gave Gerhardt carte blanche, and was offered a helping hand by George Korngold, producer and son of the famous Viennese composer, who owned all the copies of his father's scores. The Adventure Began : The Sea Hawk: Classic Film Scores of Erich Wolfgang Korngold. For this first disc, Gerhardt selected 10 scores by Korngold, which he recorded in the Kingsway Hall Studio in London, renowned for its excellent acoustics. The disc thus benefits from optimal recording conditions, favoring at the same time the performances of the National Philharmonic (and its leader, Sidney Sax), a formidable orchestra made up of London's finest musicians and freelance soloists. Each album was recorded in the same studio, with Kenneth Wilkinson as sound engineer and George Korngold as consultant/producer. As soon as it was released, the album's success received strong acclaim in classical music circles and received a feature in Billboard No. 37, a first in this category in December 1972. It took no less than a year to sell the first 10,000 copies in all the specialist record suppliers and the album went on to sell over 38,000 copies, making it the fifth best-selling album in the “classical” category in 1973. On the strength of this success, Peter Munves and RCA entrusted Charles Gerhardt with the production of further discs devoted to other world-renowned composers of Hollywood music. The program includes several albums dedicated to Max Steiner and Erich Wolfgang Korngold plus one each to Miklos Rozsa, Franz Waxman, Dimitri Tiomkin and Bernard Herrmann, followed by 3 volumes associated with specific film stars such as Bette Davis, Errol Flynn and Humphrey Bogart. Then, a disc devoted to Alfred Newman, a composer who was a pillar of the famous Hollywood sound, who Gerhardt admired and had met: “Newman was a charming man, full of good humor. He was friendly, fun and always had a joke. With his eternal black cigar in hand, he was a composer by trade, down-to-earth, discussed little about himself but was a first-rate advisor in my life. “ Gerhardt would consult certain composers in advance about how to recreate suites from their works, or when this wasn't possible, he would rearrange the suites himself and submit them to the composers for approval. "Some critics complained that my suites were too short, but my aim in the case of each album was to present a well-split 'portrait' of the composer, highlighting his many creative facets". Although Korngold, Newman and Steiner were no longer around to lend their support, Gerhardt was lucky enough to still work with Herrmann, Rózsa and Tiomkin as consultants who turned up at the recording studio to lend a hand. Gerhardt also had the idea of creating albums focusing on a single film star. Three specific volumes were devoted to music from the films of Humphrey Bogart, Errol Flynn and Bette Davis. Although these albums suffer from too great a diversity of genres, they still offer the chance to hear and discover rare and previously unpublished compositions. The best conceived album was arguably the one devoted to Bette Davis. Conscious of the important role played by music in her films, the legendary actress took part in the conception of the album, knowing that it favored scores by Max Steiner designed for Warner Bros. The Collection Begins ! Gerhardt's passion for certain composers knows no bounds, but he soon envisages a disc devoted to Miklos Rozsa, including suites for “Spellbound” and “The Red House”, one of his favorite scores, which he will exhume to create one of the longest suites in the series. At the same time, he received various fan wish lists and films to watch, such as “The Four Feathers”, which he had never seen and which gave him the opportunity to discover a splendid score by Miklos Rozsa that he had never heard before. He was disappointed, however, not to be able to conceive a longer “Spellbound” sequel for rights reasons. Despite RCA's full approval, Gerhardt realized that it was not easy to record film music in its original form, as few were ever edited, played and made available for rental. For The Sea Hawks album, things were simpler, as Georges Korngold had copies of his father's scores, and Warner Bros had also archived material in good condition. From the outset, Gerhardt encountered other major problems in the search for and discovery of scores hidden away in other studios, often with the unpleasant surprise of discovering missing or incomplete conductors, or others heavily modified by orchestrators during recording sessions, or the surprise of discovering, in certain cases, instrumentation information noted in shorthand on the edges of the conductor score. For the disc dedicated to Max Steiner, for example, the conductor score for “King Kong” had disappeared from the RKO archives, having been shipped in 1950 to poorly maintained warehouses in Los Angeles where it had become totally degraded and illegible. With the help of Georges Korngold, Gerhardt was able to reconstruct a substantial suite from the piano models left by Steiner at the time. This experience was repeated when the conductor score for Dimitri Tiomkin's “The Thing” was discovered in the same warehouse, in an advanced state of disintegration. Fortunately for Gerhardt, Tiomkin, who was still alive, had been able to provide precise piano maquettes with orchestration information in shorthand, revealing a complex and highly innovative style of writing. Tiomkin always composed at the piano, inscribing very specific information and signs on the edges of the scores in pencil, an ingenious system of his own invention that was difficult to decipher. “Revisiting the score of ‘The Thing from Another World’ was a complex task, involving experimental passages and an unorthodox orchestra. You can understand that I had a huge job on my hands. When I approached the recording sessions, it was not without some trepidation. However, the composer present made no criticism or comment on my work, and was delighted. He was delighted.” For “Gone With The Wind”, Steiner was against the idea of remaking a complete soundtrack, as he felt that too many passages were repeated. It was an opportunity for him to revisit his own score, integrating his favorite melodies. This synthesis gave him the opportunity to revitalize his music by eliminating the least interesting parts of the score. Conceived as long suites or isolated themes, the discs reflect the essence of the composers' work. The “Classic Film Scores” series by Franz Waxman, Bernard Herrmann and Miklos Rozsa etc will become a big hit with collectors. For Gerhardt, this will be an opportunity to unearth forgotten or rare scores such as Herrmann's “The White Witch” and “On a Dangerous Ground”, Hugo Friedhofer's “The Sun Also Rises” and early recordings for Waxman's “Prince Valliant” and Rozsa's “The Red House”, all with new, impeccable acoustics. For “Elisabeth and Essex”, Erich Korngold had already prepared a suite in the form of an Overture, which was given its world premiere in a theater. The suite for “The Adventures of Robin Hood” also pre-existed. Franz Waxman created his own suite for “A Place in the Sun”, which was also performed in concert. Dimitri Tiomkin, Miklos Rozsa and Bernard Herrmann acted as consultants and contributed arrangements to their scores. For the continuation of “White Witch Doctor”, Bernard Herrman added percussion to link the different musical tableaux. He did the same for the different parts of “Citizen Kane”. Miklos Rozsa saw an opportunity to add a male choir to the suite from “The Jungle Book”, based on an idea by Charles Gerhardt. For the record dedicated to Errol Flynn, Gerhardt re-orchestrated the theme “The Lights of Paris” from Hugo Friedhofer's “The Sun also Rises”, as the original was no longer available. “I wanted to go back to that time and systematically explore the very substance of the great film scores of the late 30s and 40s, sending them back directly to their images as dramatic entities. The desire to rediscover tunes we know and to take into account the contexts in which they were originally used. I decided to recreate these scores with their original orchestrations, and this could only be done by returning to the ultimate sources, as the composers had originally conceived them.” Keen to open up the collection to other genres, such as science fiction, Gerhardt dedicated two further albums to the series in 1992. The first featured contemporary sequels to “Star Wars” and “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”, promoting the work of John Williams, a leading composer of new film music. Then another called “The Spectacular World of Classic Film Scores”, presenting a disappointing compilation of scores that had already been recorded, except for the creation of a sequel to Dimitri Tiomkin's “The Thing From Another World” and Daniele Amfitheatrof's rarely heard theme “Dance of the Seven Voiles” from Salome. In 1978, the collection was published in Spain by RCA Cinema Treasures. In the USA and Europe, the Classic Film Scores LP series was reissued in the early 80s with a black art deco cover and colored star index. All Volumes in the First Series Were Reissued : By the end of the '80s, the series was running out of steam, and Charles Gerhardt planned to relaunch his collection with albums dedicated to famous American actresses, a new volume for Max Steiner and the Western, a volume reconstructing the score of Waxman's “The Bride of Frankenstein”, followed by volumes devoted to Alex North, Hugo Friedhofer, Victor Young and Elmer Bernstein... But RCA would not support Gerhardt in these projects, preferring to release the collection on CD for the first time. In early 1990, RCA asked Gerhardt to supervise and co-produce the collection, which he saw as an opportunity to revisit some of the volumes, inserting tracks that had not appeared on the LPs or extending certain suites. The volume devoted to Franz Waxman, “Sunset Boulevard”, was the first to be released. The CD did not benefit from any particular promotion, but sold very well, as did the other CDs that followed... A collection marked by a new design in silver pantone. The CDs series was reissued in 2010, still under the RCA Red Seal label, but distributed by Sony Music Entertainment. RCA Victor's Classic Films Scores series represents a unique collection in the history of film music recordings. 14 recordings of rare quality, produced by Georges Korngold and Charles Gerhardt to become one of the revelations of the reissue phenomenon. Other Concepts... Later, Gerhardt spent most of his time in London, continuing to make recordings. After retiring from RCA in 1986, he returned to independent work for Readers Digest and other record labels, a position he held in production and musical supervision until 1997. Since 1991 he had lived in Redding, California. In later years, he did not appear professionally, refusing all public invitations because of his desire to remain discreet. In his entourage he was close to three cousins, Lenore L Engel and Elizabeth Anne Schuetze, both living in San Antonio, and cousin Steven W Gerhardt of St. Pete Beach, Florida. In late November 1998 Charles Gerhardt was diagnosed with brain cancer and died of complications following surgery on February 22, 1999. He was 72 years old. Thus ends this tribute to Charles Gerhardt and the most famous collection of film music records: The Classic Film Scores series.
by Doug Raynes 24 Jan, 2024
Following on from Tadlow’s epic recording of El Cid, the same team – Nic Raine conducting and James Fitzpatrick producing – have turned their attention to a completely different type of epic film for the definitive recording of Ernest Gold’s Academy Award winning score for Otto Preminger’s Exodus (1960). The score is something of a revelation because aside from the main theme, the music has received little attention through recordings. Additionally the sound quality of the original soundtrack LP was disappointing and much music was deleted or cut from the film.
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