An Interview with Leonard Rosenman by Daniel Mangodt
First published in Soundtrack Magazine Vol.14 / No.56 / 1995
Text reproduced by kind permission of the editor, Luc Van de Ven
What does it feel like to be a member of the jury in a major film festival?
I adore it. We get along very well. The films are terrific and I’m having a lot of fun.
Are some of your concert works based on your film music?
No. A lot of film music is based on the concert pieces. They never come together, they are entirely opposite. When I lecture in the universities, I never teach films, I always teach concert music.
You scored the first two James Dean films, but you didn’t score GIANT…
I was busy doing another film, and I think the director George Stevens also wanted another composer. I didn’t really care about it. At that time I used to do the score for a film and go home to New York. I didn’t even live in Los Angeles. It was very alien to me. Most people who write film music had ambitions to be in film music. I had no ambition. It was an accident.
Scoring more than 100 films and television movies is rather more than an accident…
Right. That’s true, except it’s much less than most of the people who work in films. I’ve done 30 films. John Williams has done a hundred. I’m not interested. Sometimes I take off for 2 years, go to Italy or conduct, teach or write my own work. That’s what I do. But then it’s hard to come back, because they ask what I have been doing the last five years. I say; I wrote a violin concerto, a string quartet. “Oh, you have been unemployed”, they reply (laughs). It’s amusing and stupid at the same time.
People like to put a label on a composer.
They don’t know anything about music, or films. There are experts that are doing the job in secret. There are many people who have 30 people writing music for them. They can’t read or write music.
You mean ghost writers?
Yes. They don’t call themselves ghost writers; they call themselves orchestrators, because it’s illegal in the union to be a ghost writer.
Because it’s bad for the image of film music?
But the films themselves are awful. Today you have studios that are only doing these kinds of action films. They’re paying 20,000,000 dollars to an actor. It’s insanity. Films are going downhill. The only good films today are either independent films or foreign films. We’ve been seeing them here. Much better than anything that comes out of Hollywood.
You scored a film called SEPTEMBER 30, 1955…
Yes, about Jimmy (Dean). It was very weird. It was like going back in a time machine. It was done by a dear friend of mine, James Bridges. It was a true story based upon his experiences in college the day James Dean died. He wanted me to do an adaptation of my own music. It was very strange. I began to do EDEN and REBEL in counterpoint at the same time. I used the whole last scene of EAST OF EDEN; that began the film. We had to rerecord it. It was a lovely film, but the casting wasn’t good.
For PORK CHOP HILL you used a Chinese folk tune…
It was my idea from the beginning. I wanted to use a folk tune. I looked it up and I picked this one. It was free. I formed a kind of a march based on that. I haven’t heard that score in years, but they tell me it’s good (laughs).
Between 1962 and 1966 you stayed in Italy…
I lived in Italy, conducted mostly (the Santa Cecilia Orchestra) and I did all the music for the World War II series COMBAT. I just loved it and I wanted to stay there, but then my friend Dick Fleischer, who was my next door neighbor, called me and said he wanted me to do FANTASTIC VOYAGE.
It’s one of your favorite scores.
It’s one of the most interesting ones. I used Klangfarben. Not only was it avant-garde in terms of music, but it was also very different dramatically. In the film people went into the body in reel 5 and I didn’t want to use music until reel 5. Everybody said: “What are we going to do?” And I said, “Just use special effects and no music”. They tried it out and they loved it.
Using music in the first part would have been wrong.
Absolutely, but most people in Hollywood wouldn’t have known the difference. But it worked very well.
Nowadays there is too much wall-to-wall music in films.
I absolutely agree with you. I was the first one to start silence in films. At the time of EAST OF EDEN, Warner insisted every film had music from the first frame till the last. Just boring. The score was very revolutionary, because it had a lot of silence. You must respect what is going on in the film.
In EAST OF EDEN the father hums his theme before it is later heard in the music…
We arranged that. I wanted the music to be inaccessible from the dramatic framework, in other words, you couldn’t extract it from the film. That’s why it wasn’t played anywhere in the concert, because I didn’t make any concert version of it. Now that EAST OF EDEN is back, I’ve made a concert version of it that will be recorded later this year.
What about the dramatic use of the music you wrote for the Planetarium scene in REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE?
I played it as a drama, because the end of the world was a kind of symbolic end of the world and later on became the end of the world for the kid, because he died. That’s why I didn’t want the thing to stand out as a different scene.
You’ve written music for a lot of ‘second-rate’ films.
That’s because, when I’ve finished working on my own work, I want to get back and sometimes the only thing that’s open is a film that I know is not even good, but I need the money to pay my leisure, to do my own stuff.
You did HELLFIGHTERS.
John Williams was supposed to do that, but he got appendicitis and I was asked to step in. It had a good ‘western’ theme.
In one case you didn’t do the sequel, but the first movie: A MAN CALLED HORSE. You used a lot of ethnic music.
I collected a lot of original music for a museum from the Sioux Indians. I lived with them for a while. I wanted to make a real combination of drama and their music. Everyone was fascinated, because they had never heard a score like this. It sounded very simple, but it was very complicated.
You didn’t score the sequel.
My best friend Irwin Kershner, who directed the sequel, asked me to score it. But Kershner was never able to make up his mind about what kind of score he wanted. One moment he wanted oriental music, very heavenly, slight and spiritual; two minutes later he wanted violent music with drums and so on. “What about violent spiritual music” I asked (laughs).
You also did CROSS CREEK.
I present 2 scenes from this film in my speech later this week (at the seminar). These two scenes are really extraordinary. We planned them for film and music the way music really tells a story and if there is no music in those scenes, you don’t know what is going on. It was a wonderful film, but the merchandising was so terrible that nobody saw it.
You once called television the ‘schlock’ medium…
I don’t do television any more. I used to do a lot. It’s the most idiotic medium in the world. If I was starving to death I wouldn’t do it. There were some wonderful things (FRIENDLY FIRE, SYBIL), but today they couldn’t be done anymore. You have no idea how illiterate those people are. It’s just dreadful. If they do a drama for 2 hours, they have to have 7 acts to fit the commercials. I don’t even watch it. I just watch the news, and that’s no good (laughs).
You did MARCUS WELBY…
Yes, but the most revolutionary music for television was COMBAT.
You did a show called HOLMES AND YOYO…
I did? When did I do that?
(Checking my papers) In 1976. It was a show about a policeman who had a robot as partner.
Oh! Dreadful! It was a pilot. I thought it was a wonderful idea, but it was not done well.
What happened on the film THE LAST HARD MEN?
They threw out the score. The director Andrew V. McLaglen asked me to score it. I thought the film was dreadful and he showed it with temporary avant-garde music. It was crazy. I finally did it and it was the wildest way-out music and they threw it out and put in a guitar thing (track music by Jerry Goldsmith). He asked me to write avant-garde music and then threw it out!
There are very few CD’s with your film music.
This coming year you will have a lot of them: EDEN, REBEL, FANTASTIC VOYAGE and BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES. Also several concert pieces: a violin concerto, a string quartet, a double concerto and, I hope, Foci II.
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