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A Conversation with Akira Ifukube

Wolfgang Breyer

A Conversation with Akira Ifukube by Wolfgang Breyer / Translated from Japanese by Sachiko Tonegi


Originally published in Soundtrack Magazine Vol.12 / No.50 / 1994


Text reproduced by kind permission of the editor, Luc Van de Ven

The following interview took place at Mr. Ifukube‘s house (in a garden-city district of Tokyo) during my concert tour with the “Wiener Johann Strauss Orchestra” in January 1991 and January 1993. As a collector of antique samovars and tea pots/cups, Mr. Ifukube personally served us traditional Japanese green tea, which is a great honor for foreigners visiting Japan. We all had a wonderful afternoon in a warm hearted atmosphere and I feel very proud having been able to talk to one of Japan’s most famous composers – an artist with a great sense of humor.


What can you tell us about the history of film music in Japan, from the beginning, in the silent film era?


The first film music in Europe appeared in THE ASSASSINATION OF DUKE GUISE by Saint-Saens in 1908. The first film music in Japan was made to provide the sound effect when a cellist threw his cello! It had much sound but no sense. Only in Tokyo we had small string orchestras and many organists. The first composers of Japanese film music were Noboru Ito, Shiro Fukai and Ryoichi Hattori, who is also famous for popular music.


In Japan we learned the Russian, American and European styles of film music. The Russian style: a composer composed film music after reading a script but not having seen the movie. American style: many composers sold their themes and music scored to the music director or publishers, who chose the music for each part of the movie. So it was unbalanced music on the whole. European style: Film music was composed after the composer saw the movie. So the audiences were impressed with the music. In Japan we borrowed the European style. We composed film music after we saw the rushes. When I first started I composed film music without seeing the rushes. For example, when I composed a love scene at sunset, I imagined long shots of lovers, but actually the film took close shots of them. So I could not express the atmosphere.


What was your family background, your education and how you got into film composing?


I was born in Kushiro/Hokkaido and I first majored in forestry, so I was a forest engineer before World War II. Also I studied music at the University and became a good violin player performing as a soloist with my great friend Fumio Hayasaka accompanying me on piano. At a concert in Sapporo in 1934 I was the first musician in Japan to play Erik Satie. During the War I made a design of an airplane for the GHQ but when we lost the War I also lost my job. So I became a musician. Some of my concert music was performed in Paris and other places. After the War I was also a professor at Tokyo Geijutsu University, for one year. But I could not live on a small salary, so I lived in Nikko for a while. And I came back to Tokyo to compose my first film music, GINREI-NO-HATE (To the End of the Silver Mountains) in 1947.


What has influenced you musically? Do you have some favorite composers?


The Russian composer Alexander Tcherepnin has influenced me the most. With one of my concert works I won the first prize in an ‘A. Tcherepnin Contest’ in Europe and after that I studied with him in Boston. He was also responsible for the premiere of my first ballet, ‘Bon Odori / Bon Dance’. It was performed at Vienna in 1938. I’m still very proud of it. I also like Stravinsky, Manuel de Falla and Mussorgsky. In film music, I am influenced by Jacques Ibert and Alexander Tansmann. I had a close friendship with Alexander Tansmann and we exchanged letters but the War stopped all that. I am also influenced by opera, especially Verdi. The spirit of my movie music is from an operatic style.


When you score a film does the director influence your decisions?


I always like to meet the director before shooting starts. A director does not order me to do anything, but I try to grasp the meaning of his ideas during the discussion. I have always had a free hand when composing.


Do you have a personal philosophy about film music?


I always think that film music can establish four things: At first, it can establish the situation of time and space. The second, it can excite the emotion that the film expressed. I think there are two types of excitement – one is “interpunkt” – I compose sad music for a sad scene; the other is “kontrapunkt” (counterpoint) – I compose joyful music for a sad scene in contrast with the sadness. Thirdly, it can indicate the sequence. For example, in the first scene a fisherman is drowned at sea. In the next scene, his wife and child play at the beach and know nothing about the accident. So I continue to play the same music from the sad scene to the peaceful scene to show that it’s one sequence. Fourthly, it can embellish the photography. For example, if a rose is blooming in high speed, the picture does not need any music, essentially, but I’ll add music because I want the audience to feel the atmosphere of that growing rose. Screen music should not explain – screen music should express expressions.


What is your opinion about the character of good film music?


I think that a movie consists of three parts: dramaturgy, photography and music. You see, sometimes the story is strong, sometimes the camera work is strong, sometimes the music is strong. I consider that it is not good to treat these three parts equally. For example, if you have a dinner, you will start to have hors-d’oeuvre, soup, main dish, dessert and coffee. If you mix all these dishes you will have a nasty taste and you won’t enjoy your delicious dinner. We experience the same thing in a movie. After you finish seeing it, you will feel the harmony of all three parts.


In 1954 you were hired to write the music for Inoshiro Honda’s first giant monster film, GODZILLA. How did you get involved in it?


I really don’t know why the film company chose me as the composer of GODZILLA. I guess, because GODZILLA is big and I like big things and at that time I composed for and conducted a big symphony orchestra. Maybe that was the reason!


I read that you composed your famous GODZILLA music before you ever saw the film. Is that true?

Yes, that’s true. I only saw the model of Godzilla and I read the script. In Japan, in most cases a composer has only one week’s time to compose film music after the film is finished. I didn’t have enough time, so I composed my Godzilla music before I saw the film.


How did you get the idea to use a march theme as a leitmotiv for the monster?


I don’t remember – but the sound of Go Dzi La resembled the musical scale Do Si La – but I decided to use the minor mode key. I really don’t remember – I just thought it was good and striking. When GODZILLA first appears on the screen they needed strong music – just his horrifying face would not be enough.


You scored only one film for Akira Kurosawa. Is there a reason you never scored another film for him?


I worked with him on SHIZUKANARU KETTO (The Quiet Duel) in 1948-49. At that time, I felt something strange about his script – it seemed unnatural to me. It’s about a doctor who, during an operation, becomes infected with syphilis from a patient. I told him it’s an unnatural, stupid story and then we never worked together again. We didn’t have good feelings for each other, either.


In 1953 you wrote the music for the Viennese-born Hollywood director Joseph von Sternberg…


(Enthusiastically) Yes, yes, of course ANATAHAN!


Would you tell us your impressions about this famous director, about the film and his understanding for music?


That was really a fantastic experience. He was such a gentleman. ANATAHAN (The Saga of Anatahan) was actually his last film – he did it for himself, and as an insult to everyone else – especially Hollywood. This film was his swan song – he was such a pictorial stylist. I discussed a lot of things with him and at the beginning it was rather difficult for me as a Japanese to understand his foreign mentality and all its fine nuances. I tried to work hard with him and I played all the different themes on the piano for him. The whole movie was full of music except only five minutes. So I had to compose a lot of music – actually one reel a day, so I completed my work in ten days. He requested that I use Asian instruments. I had, and still have, a collection of very old Chinese instruments (300 years old). So I taught the musicians how to play them. Mr. Sternberg also liked mysterious moods, so I also used the Japanese instrument, Koto, which was played by a blind musician. This caused some problems because when I conducted the orchestra the player could not see me, so I had an assistant behind him who patted the blind player’s shoulder when he had a part to play. It caused a little time lag, but Mr. Sternberg liked my music very much and accepted the time delay. It took four days to record the music, which was composed in a European style mixed with Asian orchestrations.


The third well-known director you have worked with is of course Inoshiro Honda, the director of GODZILLA. How do you see your relationship with him?


Again, I talk about everything with him ahead of time, and he always gave me a completely free hand. When he visited the recording studio he never said anything, but it was his idea to accomplish Godzilla’s famous roar musically. I loosened the strings of a double-bass and pulled them with resin-coated leather gloves; then we slowed the speed and tried other things, and that gave us Godzilla’s roar. For the sequels, Mr. Honda used my recorded music quite a lot because it saved us time. I always felt a shortage of time to compose music – especially in the film business. Therefore I am not very satisfied with my film music, but I am glad I got into movies and I learned a great deal about orchestration.


That means you see yourself not as a film composer, but more of a composer for the concert hall?


It is the form which I think is the most important element in concert music. As you know, film music has no form. I am not satisfied with my film music because of a lot of the limitations. So I try to express my ideas in concert music. But my film music is popular with people while my concert works are not so well known. I still work hard to compose for the concert hall. Once I retired I became President of Tokyo College of Music about 15 years ago. I retired as President and now I teach composition. In 1978 I retired from film music after having scored LADY OGIN. Just for fun – and because so many fans asked me to do it – I wrote the music for two new Godzilla sequels, GODZILLA VS KING GHIDRA and just recently GODZILLA VS MOTHRA. The kids still like it!

by Pascal Dupont 10 May, 2024
Charles Allan Gerhardt English version adapted by Doug Raynes - FRENCH VERSION AND COLLECTION had a reputation as a great conductor, record producer and musical arranger. His major work at RCA on the Classic Film Scores series earned him recognition from film music devotees of Hollywood’s Golden Age, as well as other renowned conductors of his day. Born on February 6, 1927 in Detroit, Michigan, Charles Gerhardt developed a passion for music and percussion instruments from an early age. At the age of five, he took piano lessons, and by the age of nine, had established a solid reputation as an orchestrator and composer. He spent his early school years in Little Rock, Arkansas, then after 10 years, having completed his schooling, moved with his family to Illinois for his military duties, he served in the U.S. Navy during World War II as a chaplain's aide in the Aleutian Islands, then became an active member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. He went on to study at the University of Illinois, at the College of William and Mary, and later at the University of Southern California. Throughout his time at school Gerhardt was attracted not only to music, but also to the sciences. Passionate about the art of recording, he joined Westminster Records for five years, until the company ceased operations, and then joined Bell Sound. One day, he received a phone call from George Marek to meet with the heads of Reader's Digest, to discuss producing recordings for their mail-order record business; a contact that was to secure his musical future and a rich career spanning more than 30 years. Gerhardt's first job for Reader's Digest was to produce a record; “A Festival of Light Classical Music”; a 12 LP box set that he produced in full. One of Gerhardt's finest projects was the production of another 12 LP box set, “Les Trésores de la Grande Musique (Treasury of Great Music)”, featuring the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by some of the leading figures of the day: Charles Munch to Bizet and Tchaikovsky, Rudolf Kempe to Strauss and Respighi, Josef Krips to Mozart and Haydn, Antal Dorati to Strauss and Berlioz, Brahms 4th Symphony by Fritz Reiner and Sibelius’ 2nd Symphony by Sir John Barbirolli. In the 1950s he conducted works by Vladimir Horowitz, Wanda Landowska, Kirsten Flagstad and William Kapeli. In the early 1960s, Gerhardt lived in England, where he made most of his recordings, but kept a foothold in the United States, mainly in New York. Often, when he went to the United States after a period of recording sessions, he would stop off in Baltimore and spend some time listening to cassettes of his new recordings. Gerhardt loved percussion instruments, especially tam-tams. One of his favorite recordings was the Columbia mono disc of Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy, with Dimitri Mitropoulos and the New York Philharmonic. He had great admiration and respect for the many conductors he worked with, starting with Arturo Toscanini, with whom he worked for several years before the Maestro's death. It was Toscanini who suggested that Gerhardt become a conductor, which he did! His career as an orchestra director began when he had to replace a conductor who failed to show up for rehearsals. It was a position he would later occupy for various recording sessions and occasional concerts. His classical recordings include works by Richard Strauss, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Ravel, Debussy, Walton and Howard Hanson. Hired by RCA Records, he transferred 78 rpm recordings of Enrico Caruso and other artists to 33 rpm. He took part in recordings by soprano singer Kirsten Flagstad and pianist Vladimir Horowitz. He worked with renowned conductors such as Fritz Reiner, Leopold Stokowski and Charles Munch, from whom he learned the tricks of the trade. Still at RCA, he assisted Arturo Toscanini, with whom he perfected his conducting skills. Then, in 1960, he produced recordings for RCA and Reader’s Digest in London, and joined forces with sound engineer Kenneth Wilkinson of Decca Records (RCA's European subsidiary), The two men got on very well and shared a passion for recording and sound quality, making an incredible number of recordings over a 30-year period. Also in 1960, RCA and Reader's Digest entrusted him with the production of a 12-disc LP box set entitled “ Lumière du Classique (A Festival of Light Classical Music) ”, sold exclusively by mail order. With a budget of $250,000, Gerhardt assumed total control of the project: repertoire, choice of orchestras and production. He recorded in London, Vienna and Paris, and hired such top names as Sir Adrian Boult, Massimo Freccia, Sir Alexander Gibson and René Leibowitz. The success of this project, in terms of both musical quality and sound, earned him recognition from his employers. Other projects of similar scope followed… A boxed set of Beethoven's symphonic works with René Leibowitz and The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. A boxed set of Rachmaninoff's works for piano and orchestra with Earl Wild, Jascha Horenstein and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, the above mentioned 12 LP disc set “Trésor de la Grande Musique (Treasury of Great Music)” with the Royal Philharmonic conducted by some of the greatest directors of the time: Fritz Reiner, Charles Munch, Rudolf Kempe, Sir John Barbirolli, Sir Malcolm Sargent, Antal Dorati and Jascha Horenstein, with whom Gerhardt had sympathized. In January 1964 in London, Gerhardt joined forces with Sidney Sax, instrumentalist and conductor, to form a freelance orchestra. This successful group went on to join the National Philharmonic Orchestra of London, an impressive line-up that would later become Jerry Goldsmith's orchestra of choice. With Peter Munves, head of RCA's classical division, he conceived the idea of recording an album devoted exclusively to the film music of Erich Wolfgang Korngold, one of his favorite composers. Enthusiastic about the project, Munves gave Gerhardt carte blanche, and was offered a helping hand by George Korngold, producer and son of the famous Viennese composer, who owned all the copies of his father's scores. The Adventure Began : The Sea Hawk: Classic Film Scores of Erich Wolfgang Korngold. For this first disc, Gerhardt selected 10 scores by Korngold, which he recorded in the Kingsway Hall Studio in London, renowned for its excellent acoustics. The disc thus benefits from optimal recording conditions, favoring at the same time the performances of the National Philharmonic (and its leader, Sidney Sax), a formidable orchestra made up of London's finest musicians and freelance soloists. Each album was recorded in the same studio, with Kenneth Wilkinson as sound engineer and George Korngold as consultant/producer. As soon as it was released, the album's success received strong acclaim in classical music circles and received a feature in Billboard No. 37, a first in this category in December 1972. It took no less than a year to sell the first 10,000 copies in all the specialist record suppliers and the album went on to sell over 38,000 copies, making it the fifth best-selling album in the “classical” category in 1973. On the strength of this success, Peter Munves and RCA entrusted Charles Gerhardt with the production of further discs devoted to other world-renowned composers of Hollywood music. The program includes several albums dedicated to Max Steiner and Erich Wolfgang Korngold plus one each to Miklos Rozsa, Franz Waxman, Dimitri Tiomkin and Bernard Herrmann, followed by 3 volumes associated with specific film stars such as Bette Davis, Errol Flynn and Humphrey Bogart. Then, a disc devoted to Alfred Newman, a composer who was a pillar of the famous Hollywood sound, who Gerhardt admired and had met: “Newman was a charming man, full of good humor. He was friendly, fun and always had a joke. With his eternal black cigar in hand, he was a composer by trade, down-to-earth, discussed little about himself but was a first-rate advisor in my life. “ Gerhardt would consult certain composers in advance about how to recreate suites from their works, or when this wasn't possible, he would rearrange the suites himself and submit them to the composers for approval. "Some critics complained that my suites were too short, but my aim in the case of each album was to present a well-split 'portrait' of the composer, highlighting his many creative facets". Although Korngold, Newman and Steiner were no longer around to lend their support, Gerhardt was lucky enough to still work with Herrmann, Rózsa and Tiomkin as consultants who turned up at the recording studio to lend a hand. Gerhardt also had the idea of creating albums focusing on a single film star. Three specific volumes were devoted to music from the films of Humphrey Bogart, Errol Flynn and Bette Davis. Although these albums suffer from too great a diversity of genres, they still offer the chance to hear and discover rare and previously unpublished compositions. The best conceived album was arguably the one devoted to Bette Davis. Conscious of the important role played by music in her films, the legendary actress took part in the conception of the album, knowing that it favored scores by Max Steiner designed for Warner Bros. The Collection Begins ! Gerhardt's passion for certain composers knows no bounds, but he soon envisages a disc devoted to Miklos Rozsa, including suites for “Spellbound” and “The Red House”, one of his favorite scores, which he will exhume to create one of the longest suites in the series. At the same time, he received various fan wish lists and films to watch, such as “The Four Feathers”, which he had never seen and which gave him the opportunity to discover a splendid score by Miklos Rozsa that he had never heard before. He was disappointed, however, not to be able to conceive a longer “Spellbound” sequel for rights reasons. Despite RCA's full approval, Gerhardt realized that it was not easy to record film music in its original form, as few were ever edited, played and made available for rental. For The Sea Hawks album, things were simpler, as Georges Korngold had copies of his father's scores, and Warner Bros had also archived material in good condition. From the outset, Gerhardt encountered other major problems in the search for and discovery of scores hidden away in other studios, often with the unpleasant surprise of discovering missing or incomplete conductors, or others heavily modified by orchestrators during recording sessions, or the surprise of discovering, in certain cases, instrumentation information noted in shorthand on the edges of the conductor score. For the disc dedicated to Max Steiner, for example, the conductor score for “King Kong” had disappeared from the RKO archives, having been shipped in 1950 to poorly maintained warehouses in Los Angeles where it had become totally degraded and illegible. With the help of Georges Korngold, Gerhardt was able to reconstruct a substantial suite from the piano models left by Steiner at the time. This experience was repeated when the conductor score for Dimitri Tiomkin's “The Thing” was discovered in the same warehouse, in an advanced state of disintegration. Fortunately for Gerhardt, Tiomkin, who was still alive, had been able to provide precise piano maquettes with orchestration information in shorthand, revealing a complex and highly innovative style of writing. Tiomkin always composed at the piano, inscribing very specific information and signs on the edges of the scores in pencil, an ingenious system of his own invention that was difficult to decipher. “Revisiting the score of ‘The Thing from Another World’ was a complex task, involving experimental passages and an unorthodox orchestra. You can understand that I had a huge job on my hands. When I approached the recording sessions, it was not without some trepidation. However, the composer present made no criticism or comment on my work, and was delighted. He was delighted.” For “Gone With The Wind”, Steiner was against the idea of remaking a complete soundtrack, as he felt that too many passages were repeated. It was an opportunity for him to revisit his own score, integrating his favorite melodies. This synthesis gave him the opportunity to revitalize his music by eliminating the least interesting parts of the score. Conceived as long suites or isolated themes, the discs reflect the essence of the composers' work. The “Classic Film Scores” series by Franz Waxman, Bernard Herrmann and Miklos Rozsa etc will become a big hit with collectors. For Gerhardt, this will be an opportunity to unearth forgotten or rare scores such as Herrmann's “The White Witch” and “On a Dangerous Ground”, Hugo Friedhofer's “The Sun Also Rises” and early recordings for Waxman's “Prince Valliant” and Rozsa's “The Red House”, all with new, impeccable acoustics. For “Elisabeth and Essex”, Erich Korngold had already prepared a suite in the form of an Overture, which was given its world premiere in a theater. The suite for “The Adventures of Robin Hood” also pre-existed. Franz Waxman created his own suite for “A Place in the Sun”, which was also performed in concert. Dimitri Tiomkin, Miklos Rozsa and Bernard Herrmann acted as consultants and contributed arrangements to their scores. For the continuation of “White Witch Doctor”, Bernard Herrman added percussion to link the different musical tableaux. He did the same for the different parts of “Citizen Kane”. Miklos Rozsa saw an opportunity to add a male choir to the suite from “The Jungle Book”, based on an idea by Charles Gerhardt. For the record dedicated to Errol Flynn, Gerhardt re-orchestrated the theme “The Lights of Paris” from Hugo Friedhofer's “The Sun also Rises”, as the original was no longer available. “I wanted to go back to that time and systematically explore the very substance of the great film scores of the late 30s and 40s, sending them back directly to their images as dramatic entities. The desire to rediscover tunes we know and to take into account the contexts in which they were originally used. I decided to recreate these scores with their original orchestrations, and this could only be done by returning to the ultimate sources, as the composers had originally conceived them.” Keen to open up the collection to other genres, such as science fiction, Gerhardt dedicated two further albums to the series in 1992. The first featured contemporary sequels to “Star Wars” and “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”, promoting the work of John Williams, a leading composer of new film music. Then another called “The Spectacular World of Classic Film Scores”, presenting a disappointing compilation of scores that had already been recorded, except for the creation of a sequel to Dimitri Tiomkin's “The Thing From Another World” and Daniele Amfitheatrof's rarely heard theme “Dance of the Seven Voiles” from Salome. In 1978, the collection was published in Spain by RCA Cinema Treasures. In the USA and Europe, the Classic Film Scores LP series was reissued in the early 80s with a black art deco cover and colored star index. All Volumes in the First Series Were Reissued : By the end of the '80s, the series was running out of steam, and Charles Gerhardt planned to relaunch his collection with albums dedicated to famous American actresses, a new volume for Max Steiner and the Western, a volume reconstructing the score of Waxman's “The Bride of Frankenstein”, followed by volumes devoted to Alex North, Hugo Friedhofer, Victor Young and Elmer Bernstein... But RCA would not support Gerhardt in these projects, preferring to release the collection on CD for the first time. In early 1990, RCA asked Gerhardt to supervise and co-produce the collection, which he saw as an opportunity to revisit some of the volumes, inserting tracks that had not appeared on the LPs or extending certain suites. The volume devoted to Franz Waxman, “Sunset Boulevard”, was the first to be released. The CD did not benefit from any particular promotion, but sold very well, as did the other CDs that followed... A collection marked by a new design in silver pantone. The CDs series was reissued in 2010, still under the RCA Red Seal label, but distributed by Sony Music Entertainment. RCA Victor's Classic Films Scores series represents a unique collection in the history of film music recordings. 14 recordings of rare quality, produced by Georges Korngold and Charles Gerhardt to become one of the revelations of the reissue phenomenon. Other Concepts... Later, Gerhardt spent most of his time in London, continuing to make recordings. After retiring from RCA in 1986, he returned to independent work for Readers Digest and other record labels, a position he held in production and musical supervision until 1997. Since 1991 he had lived in Redding, California. In later years, he did not appear professionally, refusing all public invitations because of his desire to remain discreet. In his entourage he was close to three cousins, Lenore L Engel and Elizabeth Anne Schuetze, both living in San Antonio, and cousin Steven W Gerhardt of St. Pete Beach, Florida. In late November 1998 Charles Gerhardt was diagnosed with brain cancer and died of complications following surgery on February 22, 1999. He was 72 years old. Thus ends this tribute to Charles Gerhardt and the most famous collection of film music records: The Classic Film Scores series.
by Doug Raynes 24 Jan, 2024
Following on from Tadlow’s epic recording of El Cid, the same team – Nic Raine conducting and James Fitzpatrick producing – have turned their attention to a completely different type of epic film for the definitive recording of Ernest Gold’s Academy Award winning score for Otto Preminger’s Exodus (1960). The score is something of a revelation because aside from the main theme, the music has received little attention through recordings. Additionally the sound quality of the original soundtrack LP was disappointing and much music was deleted or cut from the film.
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